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On 4/14/2019 at 11:55 PM, nickwiersum said:

This is such an awesome addition to this campaign! I’ve been away at a conference for work, but I can’t wait to get started helping to decipher this. 🙂

Ah yes, please!! It's been really fun trying to work this out, I honestly can't wait for more! 

We got a new clue tonight! 
"A moment's beginning ends in a moment" - Tsalke murezhi u tsalkena

I'm guessing 'tsalke' means moment (as an inanimate nominative noun), and I'm willing to believe that the location particle u is accompanied by a different nominal case for motion/location (rather than a prepositional noun case, which is confirmedly absent). In German, location is indicated by the dative case, so I'm guessing '-ena' is an ending for dative singular inanimate nouns. 

1 minute ago, Ruben said:

Ok, I've been out a couple of days, but let's get back to this!

Varezhut zhir literally means "grateful to you" so, there's a clue right there. In this case, it is a singular expression. I its plural form, it would be zheri.

And yeah, vor indicates an agent, so you got that right.

 

I love it when confirmations come as I'm typing! XD

So -ut would instead be an adjective ending in nominative, then? And 'zhir' a dative singular form of the pronoun? 

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1 minute ago, Hilasar said:

Ah yes, please!! It's been really fun trying to work this out, I honestly can't wait for more! 

We got a new clue tonight! 
"A moment's beginning ends in a moment" - Tsalke murezhi u tsalkena

I'm guessing 'tsalke' means moment (as an inanimate nominative noun), and I'm willing to believe that the location particle u is accompanied by a different nominal case for motion/location (rather than a prepositional noun case, which is confirmedly absent). In German, location is indicated by the dative case, so I'm guessing '-ena' is an ending for dative singular inanimate nouns. 

I love it when confirmations come as I'm typing! XD

So -ut would instead be an adjective ending in nominative, then? And 'zhir' a dative singular form of the pronoun? 

Yup, can confirm this whole post is spot on. Draconic uses accusative and dative in the same way as german does.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Ruben said:

Yup, can confirm this whole post is spot on. Draconic uses accusative and dative in the same way as german does.

Nice!

These new findings change a few things I've done on the word file. 

So here is the first sentence of the poem with notes:

Quote

 

ULOCATION shêfqmirenaINANIM. SING DATIVE bakharutADJECTIVE vkr’adNOUN?

tshêmurutADJECTIVE ka je tsalkokhrNOUN?

 

I'm tempted to believe that 'ka' means something like 'for' (dlya/для) in Russian, and maybe is accompanied by accusative (in this case, -okhr?)? And 'je' gives me the feeling of 'each', but that is really a wild guess. 

And I'm still unsure about it, but I believe that 'vkr-' is the stem of an animate noun, and 'ad might... just might... be dative for it? 

Edited by Hilasar

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8 minutes ago, Hilasar said:

Nice!

These new findings change a few things I've done on the word file. 

So here is the first sentence of the poem with notes:

I'm tempted to believe that 'ka' means something like 'for' (dlya/для) in Russian, and maybe is accompanied by accusative (in this case, -okhr?)? And 'je' gives me the feeling of 'each', but that is really a wild guess. 

And I'm still unsure about it, but I believe that 'vkr-' is the stem of an animate noun, and 'ad might... just might... be dative for it? 

More clues are coming your way via twitter. Also I'll be translating the dragon's beliefs to draconic and posting them here so you can have more clues.

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6 minutes ago, Ruben said:

More clues are coming your way via twitter. Also I'll be translating the dragon's beliefs to draconic and posting them here so you can have more clues.

Oh, awesome! Looking forward to it - apologies for extra eagerness and all the guessing, I love this kind of thing and I've really been very into this. 😊

Do you guys have plans on releasing a full Draconic Grammar in the future, by the way? 

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2 minutes ago, Hilasar said:

Oh, awesome! Looking forward to it - apologies for extra eagerness and all the guessing, I love this kind of thing and I've really been very into this. 😊

Do you guys have plans on releasing a full Draconic Grammar in the future, by the way? 

Sure! that is in our plans. And don't worry, It is me who should've anticipated a stronger response.

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6 minutes ago, Ruben said:

Sure! that is in our plans. And don't worry, It is me who should've anticipated a stronger response.

Oh, I'm very excited to hear that! Kudos for the dedication, Ruben; this is going to be absolutely amazing, I'm so glad I found the Kickstarter! 

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18 minutes ago, Hilasar said:

Oh, I'm very excited to hear that! Kudos for the dedication, Ruben; this is going to be absolutely amazing, I'm so glad I found the Kickstarter! 

We are glad to reach backers like you. It really motivates us as creators.

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Clue 4:

"Our Planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark"

"Vezhe Arke umezhi kure alaure u fenutir vqrutir zherir"

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Posted (edited)

"zherir" for "dark" appears to be the singular form of "Zherani" in the poem.

Edited by Allinor

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Posted (edited)

"alaure" appears to be the singular form of "alaureni" in the poem.

Edited by Allinor

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2 hours ago, Allinor said:

Clue 4:

"Our Planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark"

"Vezhe Arke umezhi kure alaure u fenutir vqrutir zherir"

Yay!

Yeah... I think 'Vezhe Arte' corresponds directly to 'Our Planet' since most languages have possessives before nouns (and given capitalization), but I'm not completely sure if draconic has the same adjective-noun order as English. 'Alaureni' appears on the poem and I think it's most likely to mean 'lonely' than 'speck' given the context and considering that adjectives in Latin can come after the nouns (and in Russian, too), but I could be wrong. 

Are -ir all dative endings for adjectives? I remember -ena was the singular genitive ending for inanimate nouns, which leads me to think that no words in 'fenutir vqrutir zherir' there work as nouns!

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hilasar said:

Are -ir all dative endings for adjectives? I remember -ena was the singular genitive ending for inanimate nouns, which leads me to think that no words in 'fenutir vqrutir zherir' there work as nouns!

actually, I believe "zherir" is a noun in the dative case here (as in "in the [...] dark"). we saw other examples of this case earlier with "zhir", in "to you", and "khrushir", in "in the eye".

Edited by Allinor

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7 minutes ago, Allinor said:

actually, I believe "zherir" is a noun in the dative case here (as in "in the [...] dark"). we saw other examples of this case earlier with "zhir", in "to you", and "khrushir", in "in the eye".

That would make a lot of sense, I forgot to go back to the 2nd clue. The only thing confusing me here is 'u tsalkena' in a previous post as well, which also seems to be a singular dative noun, and the fact that the last clue has the same ending on both adjectives and nouns should that be the case... 

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if we take "zhir" and "khrushir" to be dative animate nouns, does that make "zherir" animate too? 😨

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Welll, based on thre progress of the thread this is what i can confirm.

5 hours ago, Hilasar said:

Yay!

Yeah... I think 'Vezhe Arte' corresponds directly to 'Our Planet' since most languages have possessives before nouns (and given capitalization), but I'm not completely sure if draconic has the same adjective-noun order as English. 'Alaureni' appears on the poem and I think it's most likely to mean 'lonely' than 'speck' given the context and considering that adjectives in Latin can come after the nouns (and in Russian, too), but I could be wrong. 
 

That's correct, vazhe Arke means "our world"
 

5 hours ago, Hilasar said:

Are -ir all dative endings for adjectives? I remember -ena was the singular genitive ending for inanimate nouns, which leads me to think that no words in 'fenutir vqrutir zherir' there work as nouns!

Yes, as you may have notice, adjectives and nouns share endings, the same way as spanish.

Now I just realized my choice of word for darkness "Zhere" clashes a bit with other words and that might lead to confusion."  So in order to avoid miselading you

Zherani and Zherir are not related

Zherir is the dative form of zhere, which means Darkness.

The language is still a bit of a WIP and while I have a dictionary, some times these things slip through the cracks. So, sorry for that.

 

8 hours ago, Allinor said:

"alaure" appears to be the singular form of "alaureni" in the poem.

Yep that's correct

 

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no, "u tsalkena" is "in a moment", not "in moments", so dative singular inanimate makes more sense.

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looking at what we have so far, I'm going to speculate that:

"-eni", as in "alaureni", is the dative plural inanimate

"-eri", as in "zheri", is the dative plural animate

and "-ani", as in "zhurani", is the genetive plural animate

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48 minutes ago, Allinor said:

no, "u tsalkena" is "in a moment", not "in moments", so dative singular inanimate makes more sense.

Yep, tsalkena is inanimate dative singular

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2 minutes ago, Allinor said:

looking at what we have so far, I'm going to speculate that:

"-eni", as in "alaureni", is the dative plural inanimate

"-eri", as in "zheri", is the dative plural animate

and "-ani", as in "zhurani", is the genetive plural animate

Of those three you got the second one right. The other two have exactly one thing incorrect (wether the case, the number, or the type of noun)

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thanks 🙂

I'm sure "-eni" is inanimate plural, but I don't know the case.

"-ani" must be animate accusative plural.

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Oh! So just really quick before I can really go back to thinking about this - so in Draconic, abstract entities like 'Darkness' and parts of beings such as 'eye' count as animate nouns, correct? 

And on another question... may I assume that in case of Varezhut Zhir, since Ruben has confirmed that adjectives take the same ending as nouns like Spanish, that -ut would be a Proper noun plural nominative ending (In the case of 'we are grateful to you')? I don't know if that'd be for ones ending in consonants or vowels, but I thought it was worth a shot! 

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it's possible there's a relation between the plural animate forms and the singular proper forms, where, for example, the normally animate nominative plural "-era", or the animate genitive plural, could be used for singular proper nouns ending in consonants. and the plural proper nouns get special forms of their own.

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Clue 5:

"Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others"

"Mire umeth feksa umezhi mireth mrokhr tshêmiregrut va'aluteri"

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